Mike SE IL - 1/14/2023 03:12
I've written a response and deleted it twice. The problem is it keeps getting bigger and bigger. First an answer to "Who is this guy?" I'm a farmer that has been working full time / part time / peak season in the propane industry since 1992. I'm also a recently retired volunteer Fire Chief. I've reached the place I may be thought of as "The Old Guy'. Let's start with a background on "codes". The National Fire Protection Association publishes all kinds of codes and standards. It starts with NFPA 1 and goes to NFPA 8506. I've studied some of them and if you can't get to sleep just grab one and start reading.
NFPA itself has no authority. However most states adopt the NFPA codes into law. For fuel gas NFPA 58 (mostly outside the building) and NFPA 54 (mostly inside the building) are the basics. Most states adopt a specific edition. I'm not sure about Iowa. Illinois has adopted NFPA 58 2011 edition. There are Federal regulations. Some states (Texas for example) have their own additional rules and regulations. Some municipalities get involved as well. And some suppliers or their insurance provider have even more rules to follow. But all those can only be more strict than 54 and 58. When I started there were more lawyers buying copies of the national fuel gas code than propane folks. That simple fact changed how a lot of things were done. I'm not going to quote "chapter and verse" but we can get into if someone wants a reference. Oh, and JAnderson it isn't BS, it's not only the law but a matter of safety.
IADAVE - ... I grabbed my old tank as it still had propane in it. I hooked it up to a torpedo heater for shop heat. I figured I would run it out and then set it where I wanted for the furnace. I have been trying to get it filled and the coop does not want to fill it as they cannot trench in the line. They also claim they have to come check the tank. They tell me the tank won't pass because the cannot check the under ground lines. It is not hooked to any underground lines nor will it be. Do I dare run the tank out? One of the questions they asked is if it still had propane in it. It does now but may not by tomorrow if I keep running.
Later you said it used to be an NH3 tank and your supplier would not fill it. So many questions come up.
First, is the data plate legible? A tank must meet certain requirements and must have a legible data plate. I don't care if it has been filled since 1948
(one of my customers has one
) if it doesn't it is not legal to fill it. That doesn't stop some suppliers but the bigger the company the more they are insistent about it.
Until a few years ago you could take an old anhydrous tank, clean it out, change some valves and fittings, and use it for propane. Current federal regulations prohibit that. You may continue to use a prior converted tank if it meets all the rules and regulations. BUT some companies just flat say no old anhydrous tanks
(usually there is either a past lawsuit or an insurance company involved
) Also I don't know if Dave's tank has all this or if it still has an old NH3 valve on it.
the coop does not want to fill it as they cannot trench in the line
I can't speak for your co-op. It's Iowa in mid January. Of course they can't trench a line! What we usually do is run a temporary copper line on top of the ground that will be properly trenched in as soon as conditions allow. Yes, copper. Or maybe even steel pipe. Never plastic for safety reasons.
Speaking of plastic, there is plastic tubing specifically made for fuel gas. It's not black plastic water pipe. Code requires specific fittings be used, it must terminate either underground or with a specifically designed riser. And it must be buried with a tracer wire above it. It cannot be touching it. I know, sounds silly but that is VERY important. Remember I mentioned "editions"? This gets interesting because earlier editions may address plastic differently than current ones.
CMN - We've burned thousands of gallons of l-p without the lines being buried
Good for you. Doesn't mean it is legal or correct. Underground piping needs to be at least 12" deep
(18' if non-metallic
) and deeper and possibly in conduit when it will be driven over. Going under a driveway my preference is as deep as the trencher goes and put it in PVC to protect it. And rocks and things in the trench present another problem to be addressed
Tanks must be a minimum distance ... except. Speaking as the retired Fire Chief
I want them 50 feet from anything. If your building catches fire I don't want my firefighters put in harm's way. And I don't want to have to dedicate a line and two firefighters just to cool your tank. Why?
Watch This video NFPA 58 says under 125 gallons can be against the building EXCEPT the filling point must be at least 10 feet from any source of ignition. And a tank will have a regulator on it with a relief valve which must be at least 5 feet from an source of ignition or an opening into or under the building. I disagree with right against a building, I don't want any tank that close to a building but that's the code. Over 125 gallons up to 500 NFPA 58 says 10 feet is minimum. That is wrong, it should be at least 25 if not 50. Over 500 up to 2000 NFPA 58 says 25 feet. Here's a drawing of what the NFPA 58 says:
This has gotten way too long and I still haven't addressed being empty and leak testing. But enough for now
filling a propane tank.
