Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn. | sixfeet - 1/7/2024 17:20
I'm renting a dry applicator that has a Raven 660 controller. For some reason, the bottom row of buttons are inactive. I had a Raven 440 on the shelf, so I put it in the cab. I input all the same setup values that the 660 had. I'm trying to apply 300 lbs./acre. Two bad things happened. The boom control switch doesn't stop the belt in the spreader when the switch is turned off. And secondly, the monitor consistently told me I was underapplying, around 25% of target. In reality, I applied 548 lbs/acre, 83% above target. I'm pretty sure I was accurately counting speed and acres. Maybe I need to use factoring on the 440?
Ideas?
First off, the keypad in the 660 likely needs replacing. This is somewhat common. When I worked as a Tech, I replaced several in the models 440, 450, 460, 660 etc. The keypads are all the same physical size but vary slightly depending on the model. For example the 440 and 450 have a slightly different labelling for the boom sections since the 440 has only 3 maximum and uses the names Boom 1, Boom 2 and Boom 3. Since the 450 have six boom capability, those buttons include UP, DOWN arrow keys.
The likely reason that your 440 sort of worked but not exactly as you desired is the difference in setting capabilities between the 440 and 660. For using a dry applicator with a 660 you would use certain initial settings which apply to the granular setup as well as the control type. Some of these settings may not be available on the 440 (thus the reason for the 660) or if they were available you may not have set them properly.
To check your initial settings press and hold the Self-Test key. You should then see various words or abbreviations flash by on the screen. Write them down. These are what I mean by initial settings. This list of "multiple choice" questions has expanded through the years. The 660 may have settings that are simply not available on the 440 since the 440 was designed to work with a liquid situation with a flow meter etc. The 660 can behave like a 440 but can do more so it has more multiple choice options.
For example, with a 660 set to "Granular", the expectation is that the flow of material will be measured by a shaft sensor. The meter cal for a liquid system is simple, it is just the meter cal number stamped on the flow meter. For a granular situation the situation is more complex since the amount of material delivered for each shaft rotation will depend on the gate setting, the gate width, the density of the granular product and the type of shaft sensor. The 660 allows one to use a Spreader Constant which is a special number for that applicator referring to the gate setting, gate width, shaft sensor etc. Then the operator can enter the product density for the product being used. The 660 will then generate its own internal meter cal that it uses to measure and thus control the product. The idea is that the spreader constant would remain the same from product to product but the density could easily be entered to correspond to different products. This works reasonably well.
The 440 can be used with granular products but requires some homework on the part of the operator. Since the 440 does not have the "granular mode" of operation, the operator would need to enter in a meter cal that "makes the volume work out right for that product with that gate setting and shaft sensor". This can be done by trial and error.
The method I used was to enter in an arbitrary meter cal in the 440 such as 100. Then set the Total Volume (actually weight in this case) back to zero on the Raven and run some product through the system. Stop the system and write down the Volume shown on the display. Then weigh what actually was dispensed by either catching and weighing what came out or by weighing the rig before and after and subtracting. If the volume shown on the Raven agrees reasonably close to the weight dispensed - 100 was a good choice and use it for the meter cal for that product and gate setting.
More than likely the two values will not be close so adjust the meter cal and try again. By performing this "catch" test several times and refining the meter cal you should be able to come up with a reasonably close meter cal for that product and that gate setting. Write this down. If you should apply a different product, its density and flow characteristics will likely be different so the calibration should be performed with that product. Repeat the above process and again write down the product and cal number you believe to be close. Keep these notes for future reference.
It would be best to use a self-test ground speed and enter the target rate you plan on using and then run the "catch" test. This will more realistically represent the product flow in field like conditions and would be a better test for fine tuning the meter cal. Be aware that due to the differences in product density and flow characteristics, the repeatability for a granular product is not as good as it can be for a liquid situation where the product remains fairly consistent from day to day.
You mention that you may need to apply to "factoring". That would be another approach. In simple terms, if the actual applied rate was not what you had intended you could adjust the meter cal by the percentage that you were "off". In your case, the meter cal was obviously not correct. If you had used a meter cal about 1/2 of what you used, the system would believe it was applying about twice as much which would be in the ballpark. Since the system was also showing that it was underapplying, this tells me that it was operating at its maximum speed which is also an indication that the meter cal was too large. The system divides by the meter cal entered, so if you enter a smaller meter cal, the amount the system believes it applied will be greater which would be closer to the correct value.
Also realize that if the bin should become empty, there will be no indication on the display since the shaft would likely be turning at the correct speed but obviously nothing would be coming out. This is in contrast to a flow meter where the flow meter would stop thus alerting the operator right away. I've found that many operators do not realize this and keep merrily driving along
As far as why the system would not stop applying, this could be due to the control valve setting. The two types of Control Valves for hydraulic control are Servo and PWM. There are two settings for each. One stops the flow when the Master is shut OFF and the other does not. This is one of the initial settings. The letter "C" or the word "Close" in the valve type setting will indicate that the valve should "close" when the Master is shut off.
Edited by tedbear 1/8/2024 09:17
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Raven 440 vs 660
